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	<title>Comments on: The sinister Silver Ring Thing</title>
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	<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/</link>
	<description>The voice of atheism since 1881</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Barnaby Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-10730</link>
		<dc:creator>Barnaby Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-10730</guid>
		<description>Surely the £10 for the ring would be better spent on contraception. After all how is a small piece of silver going to stop a drunken schoolgirl from becoming pregnant. It's just another cynical U.S. exploitation of the hard-of-thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely the £10 for the ring would be better spent on contraception. After all how is a small piece of silver going to stop a drunken schoolgirl from becoming pregnant. It&#8217;s just another cynical U.S. exploitation of the hard-of-thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Armitage</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-6644</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Armitage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-6644</guid>
		<description>Let's take alcohol as a parallel, Iftikar (not relevant to you as a Muslim, I know, but you'll see what I mean in a moment). In Britain, we treat it as a taboo, so kids go out of their way to get rat-arsed at every opportunity. Result: binge drinking and alcohol-related crime. In some Continental countries, it's treated as the norm, and a glass or two of wine is allowed to youngsters. Result: less binge drinking. The taboo is removed. Tell someone not to do something, and they'll wonder why. Once they've wondered why, they'll want to try it.

Same with sex. As Barry Duke says in the comment above, good education is key. Yes, it's a good thing to tell kids about the dangers of unprotected sex: possible disease, possible pregnancy (it's not the case that "Abstinence is the only way to stay disease[-] and pregnan[cy-]free", as you say: care and good education can achieve that, too).

And what the hell are you doing dropping all that stuff about Muslim schools into this conversation? Anyone who's seen any of your posts can tell you've got it on your clipboard and you're just pasting it into blogs wherever you go. Stick to the points. But, since you raise the subject, Muslim schools – all religious schools – are an abomination, and lead only to further sectarianism. This is Britain. Get used to it. Your kids are British. If you want them to take on the trappings of another culture entirely, you know where the door is. Take them with you. We'd rather our Asian kids (and those of other foreign ancestry) were British and free to choose a religion, or not to have one at all, rather than compulsorily Muslim, &lt;i&gt;whatever&lt;/i&gt; their ethnicity or colour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s take alcohol as a parallel, Iftikar (not relevant to you as a Muslim, I know, but you&#8217;ll see what I mean in a moment). In Britain, we treat it as a taboo, so kids go out of their way to get rat-arsed at every opportunity. Result: binge drinking and alcohol-related crime. In some Continental countries, it&#8217;s treated as the norm, and a glass or two of wine is allowed to youngsters. Result: less binge drinking. The taboo is removed. Tell someone not to do something, and they&#8217;ll wonder why. Once they&#8217;ve wondered why, they&#8217;ll want to try it.</p>
<p>Same with sex. As Barry Duke says in the comment above, good education is key. Yes, it&#8217;s a good thing to tell kids about the dangers of unprotected sex: possible disease, possible pregnancy (it&#8217;s not the case that &#8220;Abstinence is the only way to stay disease[-] and pregnan[cy-]free&#8221;, as you say: care and good education can achieve that, too).</p>
<p>And what the hell are you doing dropping all that stuff about Muslim schools into this conversation? Anyone who&#8217;s seen any of your posts can tell you&#8217;ve got it on your clipboard and you&#8217;re just pasting it into blogs wherever you go. Stick to the points. But, since you raise the subject, Muslim schools – all religious schools – are an abomination, and lead only to further sectarianism. This is Britain. Get used to it. Your kids are British. If you want them to take on the trappings of another culture entirely, you know where the door is. Take them with you. We&#8217;d rather our Asian kids (and those of other foreign ancestry) were British and free to choose a religion, or not to have one at all, rather than compulsorily Muslim, <i>whatever</i> their ethnicity or colour.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Duke</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-6559</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-6559</guid>
		<description>Oh get a grip, Iftikar. Chastity programmes have done nothing to reduce the high rates of teenage pregnancies that are such a problem in the UK and the USA in particular. Indeed, it has been shown that the many who drop out of such programmes are far more likely to engage in unprotected sex than those who avoid such programmes.

The reason for our problems is obvious; there is a systematic failure in our education system to tackle sex education in a open and honest way. This is because far too many people of a religious bent are allowed to interfere in sex education, and are interested only in keeping children in a state of sexual stupidity. Islam is probably the worst offender in this regard.

On the other hand countries which have successfully removed the odious influence of religion from their schools' sexual education and other programmes not only have teenagers who are far happier and better educated than those in the UK and the USA, they also have a far lower incidence of teenage pregnancies, sexually-transmitted diseases, and drug and alcohol problems.

I refer, of course, to the Scandinavian countries, and Holland, where the whole spectrum of human sexuality is routinely examined in the classrooms. It does not offend me to know that youngsters in those countries are introduced, in MIXED classrooms, and at a pretty early age, to condoms and how to use them. 

Indeed, it pleased me no end to learn that in some classes, children as young as 11 are taught how to slip a condom onto a penis with their mouths. (Cucumbers are used for the lesson).

Also that homosexuality is in no way stigmatised, which allows gay youngsters to fulfill their sex lives as openly and proudly as anyone else – just as they should.

If schools in this country were to follow these examples, without interference from religious ignoramuses, I am confident that we would quickly overcome the problems caused by the sheer ignorance we insist on foisting on children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh get a grip, Iftikar. Chastity programmes have done nothing to reduce the high rates of teenage pregnancies that are such a problem in the UK and the USA in particular. Indeed, it has been shown that the many who drop out of such programmes are far more likely to engage in unprotected sex than those who avoid such programmes.</p>
<p>The reason for our problems is obvious; there is a systematic failure in our education system to tackle sex education in a open and honest way. This is because far too many people of a religious bent are allowed to interfere in sex education, and are interested only in keeping children in a state of sexual stupidity. Islam is probably the worst offender in this regard.</p>
<p>On the other hand countries which have successfully removed the odious influence of religion from their schools&#8217; sexual education and other programmes not only have teenagers who are far happier and better educated than those in the UK and the USA, they also have a far lower incidence of teenage pregnancies, sexually-transmitted diseases, and drug and alcohol problems.</p>
<p>I refer, of course, to the Scandinavian countries, and Holland, where the whole spectrum of human sexuality is routinely examined in the classrooms. It does not offend me to know that youngsters in those countries are introduced, in MIXED classrooms, and at a pretty early age, to condoms and how to use them. </p>
<p>Indeed, it pleased me no end to learn that in some classes, children as young as 11 are taught how to slip a condom onto a penis with their mouths. (Cucumbers are used for the lesson).</p>
<p>Also that homosexuality is in no way stigmatised, which allows gay youngsters to fulfill their sex lives as openly and proudly as anyone else – just as they should.</p>
<p>If schools in this country were to follow these examples, without interference from religious ignoramuses, I am confident that we would quickly overcome the problems caused by the sheer ignorance we insist on foisting on children.</p>
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		<title>By: Iftikhar Ahmad</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-6554</link>
		<dc:creator>Iftikhar Ahmad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-6554</guid>
		<description>Chastity Crusade

An American Christian group is visiting Britain to preach sexual abstinence to teenagers. It is going to persuade them to wear a “chastity ring” on their wedding fingers. It is very difficult to find a virgin teenager in modern British society. Abstinence is the only way to stay disease and pregnant free. The group’s message would be irrelevant to most teenagers who are mature enough to lose their virginity at 14 or earlier. Silver Ring Thing is selling chastity rings for £10.00 to discourage teenagers from premarital sex.

The movement was founded in 1995 by Denny Pattyn in the United States. He calls today’s teenagers “the cesspool generation”. The UK has the second highest teenager pregnancy rate in the Western world. Over a million young Americans have already taken the Silver Ring Pledge. The British Humanist regards it the latest cranky Christian concept from America and has the full support of George W Bush with one million dollars as part of his campaign to replace sex education.

  Western society is really un- interested in having sex free life before marriage. A Headmistress has condemned parents who allow their teenage daughters to wear skimpy clothes. Thousands of high street chemists are to be told they may be allowed to sell the morning-after pill without prescription to girls under 16.

Islam condemnation of permissive society is actually quite attractive to many who are concerned by the frightening growth of sexually transmitted diseases and break down of stable family structures. Muslim pupils need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers to develop Islamic Identity. The new UK independent Party Euro MP said that business should not employ women of child –bearing age. We talk about the promiscuous society that relegates sex to a self-gratifying experience and refuses to acknowledge that self-control and having only one sexual partner for life might halt STD. In Afghanistan 99.9% of teenagers are virgin. The reason is that all teenager girls leave homes wearing Afghani Burkhas. There is no mix gathering. They attend single sex schools. They marry as early as possible. If the teenager girls start wearing Afghani Burkhas or Jilbab, I am sure that they are not going to lose their virginity before marriage. The other alternative is the wearing of Jilbab. The success of chastity crusade will depend on the number of teenagers leaving homes for schools with Jilbab or Afghani Burkhas. 
Iftikhar Ahmad 
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chastity Crusade</p>
<p>An American Christian group is visiting Britain to preach sexual abstinence to teenagers. It is going to persuade them to wear a “chastity ring” on their wedding fingers. It is very difficult to find a virgin teenager in modern British society. Abstinence is the only way to stay disease and pregnant free. The group’s message would be irrelevant to most teenagers who are mature enough to lose their virginity at 14 or earlier. Silver Ring Thing is selling chastity rings for £10.00 to discourage teenagers from premarital sex.</p>
<p>The movement was founded in 1995 by Denny Pattyn in the United States. He calls today’s teenagers “the cesspool generation”. The UK has the second highest teenager pregnancy rate in the Western world. Over a million young Americans have already taken the Silver Ring Pledge. The British Humanist regards it the latest cranky Christian concept from America and has the full support of George W Bush with one million dollars as part of his campaign to replace sex education.</p>
<p>  Western society is really un- interested in having sex free life before marriage. A Headmistress has condemned parents who allow their teenage daughters to wear skimpy clothes. Thousands of high street chemists are to be told they may be allowed to sell the morning-after pill without prescription to girls under 16.</p>
<p>Islam condemnation of permissive society is actually quite attractive to many who are concerned by the frightening growth of sexually transmitted diseases and break down of stable family structures. Muslim pupils need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers to develop Islamic Identity. The new UK independent Party Euro MP said that business should not employ women of child –bearing age. We talk about the promiscuous society that relegates sex to a self-gratifying experience and refuses to acknowledge that self-control and having only one sexual partner for life might halt STD. In Afghanistan 99.9% of teenagers are virgin. The reason is that all teenager girls leave homes wearing Afghani Burkhas. There is no mix gathering. They attend single sex schools. They marry as early as possible. If the teenager girls start wearing Afghani Burkhas or Jilbab, I am sure that they are not going to lose their virginity before marriage. The other alternative is the wearing of Jilbab. The success of chastity crusade will depend on the number of teenagers leaving homes for schools with Jilbab or Afghani Burkhas.<br />
Iftikhar Ahmad<br />
<a href="http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Iftikhar Ahmad</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-6553</link>
		<dc:creator>Iftikhar Ahmad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-6553</guid>
		<description>Salaam

It is not Islam and Muslims who are creating problems, actually it is 
British society creating problems for the Muslim community.

The Muslim community has been vicitm of Paki-bashing in all walks of life by 
the British society and Establishment for the last 60 years. Now it is 
vicitm of terrorism by the British Establishment. Thousands of Muslim youth 
are being serched in the streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar 
without any trial.

State schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers are not suitable for 
Muslim children. This is the reason why majority of them leave schools with 
low grades.

God has created diverse human beings to live in this tiny global villageas 
of one family. Creation by its very nature is deverse with different 
species, different communities, different cultures and languages. These 
differences represent the beauty and wonder but diversity is sometimes not 
fully appreciated, resulting in all sorts of clashes. The British society 
and Establishment must learn to respect and accommodate others, as if in a 
family.

A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to 
become notoriously monolingual Brit. He/she is supposed to be well versed in 
standard English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages, to be part of 
the Britisah society, as well as proud of his.her cultural roots and enjoy 
the beauty of his/her literature and poetry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salaam</p>
<p>It is not Islam and Muslims who are creating problems, actually it is<br />
British society creating problems for the Muslim community.</p>
<p>The Muslim community has been vicitm of Paki-bashing in all walks of life by<br />
the British society and Establishment for the last 60 years. Now it is<br />
vicitm of terrorism by the British Establishment. Thousands of Muslim youth<br />
are being serched in the streets and hundreds of them are behind the bar<br />
without any trial.</p>
<p>State schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers are not suitable for<br />
Muslim children. This is the reason why majority of them leave schools with<br />
low grades.</p>
<p>God has created diverse human beings to live in this tiny global villageas<br />
of one family. Creation by its very nature is deverse with different<br />
species, different communities, different cultures and languages. These<br />
differences represent the beauty and wonder but diversity is sometimes not<br />
fully appreciated, resulting in all sorts of clashes. The British society<br />
and Establishment must learn to respect and accommodate others, as if in a<br />
family.</p>
<p>A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to<br />
become notoriously monolingual Brit. He/she is supposed to be well versed in<br />
standard English, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages, to be part of<br />
the Britisah society, as well as proud of his.her cultural roots and enjoy<br />
the beauty of his/her literature and poetry.</p>
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		<title>By: Nickthelight</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Nickthelight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Why would anyone want to wear a ring stating virginity? What about the day she turn's up not wearing it - THE SLUT!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would anyone want to wear a ring stating virginity? What about the day she turn&#8217;s up not wearing it - THE SLUT!</p>
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		<title>By: Tony McMahon</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony McMahon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-72</guid>
		<description>In the way that Searchlight magazine has done over the years, don't atheists need to be a lot more forthright with the media in pointing out these links with dubious individuals and groups.  Especially, and I speak as an ex-BBC journo, newsroom producers just rely on second hand info from newswires and websites these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the way that Searchlight magazine has done over the years, don&#8217;t atheists need to be a lot more forthright with the media in pointing out these links with dubious individuals and groups.  Especially, and I speak as an ex-BBC journo, newsroom producers just rely on second hand info from newswires and websites these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Android</title>
		<link>http://freethinker.co.uk/2007/07/17/the-sinister-silver-ring-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Android</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.freethinker.co.uk/?p=55#comment-34</guid>
		<description>I don't agree that the ring should be banned if jewellery itself is permitted. After all, kids wear all sort of things to symbolise all sorts of things, and it would merely be censorship to say thou shalt not wear the Silver Ring, of Thing fame. However, if banning jewellery is part of school dress policy - and whether it &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; or not is another argument - then it's fair that the Silver Thing should be banned also. To allow or to ban it purely because it's religious is missing the point that we value freedom of religion (though we're not religious) &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; it's freedom of expression, and that is important to us all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree that the ring should be banned if jewellery itself is permitted. After all, kids wear all sort of things to symbolise all sorts of things, and it would merely be censorship to say thou shalt not wear the Silver Ring, of Thing fame. However, if banning jewellery is part of school dress policy - and whether it <i>should</i> or not is another argument - then it&#8217;s fair that the Silver Thing should be banned also. To allow or to ban it purely because it&#8217;s religious is missing the point that we value freedom of religion (though we&#8217;re not religious) <i>because</i> it&#8217;s freedom of expression, and that is important to us all.</p>
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